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MyIndo.com Article Republished in Warta WILTA
by Farah 'Fairy' Mahdzan email me
Posted on 16 April 2007 | Readers Comments

 

From my course of running MyIndo.com, I befriended a very friendly group of Australians from Perth and boy, are they enthusiastic about learning Bahasa Indonesia and its culture. And it is to no wonder, they are actually teachers teaching the language at primary and secondary school levels!

One of these teachers, Penny Coutas, wrote me back in December to request permission to republish one of MyIndo.com's most visited articles: the infamous "Don't Call Them Indon" piece that generated endless heated debates from readers from both sides of the argument (Malaysia vs Indonesia).

I happily obliged.

The "Indon" article recently appeared in the Term 1 2007 issue of the Westralian Indonesian Language Teachers' Association newsletter, or Warta WILTA. (Phew, what a mouthful!) :o)

You will find my article in pages 24 & 25 of the publication:

 

MyIndo.com in Warta WILTA
"Don't Call Them Indon" (pages 24-25)

 

MyIndo.com in Warta WILTA

Front cover of Term 1 issue of Warta WILTA 2007. Pictured is a Google map of the various locations of WILTA members in Western Australia.

If you'd like to read the Warta WILTA newsletter in its entirety, please download a copy here (5.2MB PDF file). Terima kasih Penny for allowing me to make it available to all MyIndo.com readers.

 

Can Indonesian be taught in Malaysia?

This was an interesting question posed by Warta WILTA to its audience at the end of thewarta wilta asks "Indon" article.

Going to Indonesia to learn Indonesian is now largely perceived as unsafe by Australians due to the torrent of tragedies that have hit Indonesia in recent years, both natural (think tsunami in Aceh and Jogjakarta) and man-made (car bombings in Bali and Jakarta). Due to this, more parents and teachers grow increasingly uncomfortable about letting their kids and students visit Indonesia for field trips and homestay programs. Travel advisories from authorities discouraging Australians from visiting the neighboring archipelago just seem to further strengthen this fear.

Thus this raises the possibility that Indonesian language students from Australia could go visit relatively safer Malaysia for this educational purpose. I believe this idea is largely based on the perception that Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia are similar enough that you could pull off learning the former language in the latter country.

While the idea might seem amusing, it is not entirely dismissable. Regardless of geographical location, one is quite capable of mastering a foreign language given a very fluent-speaking teacher, ideally native for maximal impact. The major components one would miss out on are mainly the authentic surroundings and cultural environment that come from being in the actual country of where the language originates.

Hence if this idea was to be pursued, the Australian-Indonesian teachers could work with the Indonesian Embassy in Kuala Lumpur to develop such a program and liase with the two Indonesian primary and secondary schools that currently exist in the Malaysian capital city.

However logically speaking, if you were to think like a purist, the Australian teachers should consider learning Bahasa Malaysia and the Malay culture instead if their students were to actually be in Malaysia. The possible hindrance to this is having to setup a completely new language program, specifically a Malay one.

My closing thoughts are these: some may think Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia are the same but it would be ignorant to continue thinking so. Although the root of these two languages stem mainly from Malay, I personally feel that they bear enough differences to warrant separate language and cultural courses. I believe that as an Indonesian language student, you would not experience the true feeling of being in Indonesia while in Malaysia. You would benefit more from learning Bahasa Malaysia and indulging in the culture and nuance that Malaysia has to offer. And I as a Malaysian would certainly want you to do so. :-)

 

 

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Readers' Comments: 58 entries
#58 Fairy 4-Jan-2008, 10:09 MYT
NIRINA: Thanks for the tip off! Now Australians can learn Bahasa Indonesia in their country! But I personally think they'd rather venture out and learn it in Indonesia - it's more fun and authentic, plus you get to experience Indonesian daily life.

#57 Nirina 31-Dec-2007, 19:25 MYT
Mbak Fai, kayaknya untuk belajar bahasa Indonesia nggak perlu lagi ke Indo atau M'sia, sebab di Australia Barat sudah ada Balai Bahasa Indonesia. Nih, baca deh!

Senin, 31 Desember 2007 9:47:00
Australia Barat Segera Miliki Balai Bahasa Indonesia

Brisbane--RoL-- Australia Barat segera memiliki Balai Bahasa Indonesia (BBI), guna mendukung pengembangan pengajaran bahasa dan budaya Indonesia di negara bagian itu, kata pejabat Konsulat RI di sana.

Wakil Konsul untuk Bidang Penerangan Konsulat RI di Perth, Ricky Suhendar, dari Brisbane, Senin, mengatakan bahwa proses pembentukan BBI itu sedang berlangsung dan pembukaannya direncanakan berlangsung pertengahan Januari 2008 mendatang. "Sekarang dalam proses pembentukan. Insya Allah pertengahan Januari 2008 bisa kami luncurkan, dengan para stakeholders di sini," kata dia pula.

Atase Pendidikan dan Kebudayaan RI di KBRI Canberra, Dr R Agus Sartono MBA yang dihubungi secara terpisah mengatakan, pembentukan BBI oleh Konsulat RI Perth bekerjasama dengan "Westralian Indonesian Language Teachers' Association" (Wilta/Perhimpunan Para Guru Bahasa Indonesia Australia Barat) itu patut disambut baik. "Saya sangat mendukung pembentukan Balai Bahasa Indonesia ini, terlebih lagi kehadirannya sejalan dengan program pemerintah kita untuk menggalakkan pengajaran bahasa Indonesia di luar negeri," kata dia lagi.

Rapat koordinasi para atase pendidikan dan kebudayaan (Adikbud) Departemen Pendidikan Nasional RI di Bandung, 2-4 Desember 2007, juga antara lain telah mengamanatkan upaya untuk meningkatkan pengajaran bahasa Indonesia di luar negeri, kata Agus Sartono.

Dukungan pihaknya pada kegiatan BBI, antara lain diwujudkan dengan pemberian bantuan dana sebesar sepuluh ribu dolar Australia atau sekitar Rp80 juta rupiah. "Organisasi ini nantinya diharapkan berkembang menjadi organisasi nirlaba yang bisa berjalan sendiri dengan baik, dan bahkan bisa menjadi pusat penguji kemampuan berbahasa Indonesia bagi para penutur asing di Australia Barat," ujar dia pula.

Agus Sartono menyatakan, kehadiran BBI itu tidak dapat dilepaskan dari peran Konsul RI di Perth, Dr Aloysius L Madja, bekerjasama dengan Wilta maupun para pemangku kepentingan lainnya, sehingga BBI dapat hadir di Australia Barat pada tahun 2008. Antara/yto

#56 SuperGay 15-Jun-2007, 13:25 MYT
R.Soares : Elo tuh WNI toch?? Gw pikir lo di Tim Tim sono. Lo bener banget! Gw kesian juga tuh ama rakyat Tim Tim. Bener2 jadi korban ambisi beberapa gelintir manusia dan negara besar. Sumpah padahal waktu masih sama Indonesia, Tim Tim tuh bener2 dimanja, beberapa propinsi sempet cemburu dech ibaratnya ama perlakuan Pemerintah Pusat ke Tim Tim. Coba klo rakyat Tim Tim dulu lihat gimana kehidupan sodara2nya di propinsi laen yang gak jauh beda sebenernya sama di Tim Tim. Pasti mereka akan berpikir dua kali untuk merdeka. Too sad.

#55 pakdin 15-Jun-2007, 09:46 MYT
gampang ajah sih jawabannya. Pada suatu saat nanti Tim-tim HUT kemerdekaan yahh dari mana yah ? merdeka dari siapa ? Dari Belanda kaleee!!!

#54 R. Soares 14-Jun-2007, 22:39 MYT
Kasian emang nasib Timor Leste itu. Udah kecil, kismin, eh nggak diterima pula. Sedih gue ngeliat sodara2 gue yg ada disana. Kalo gue sih emang pilih WNI dari jaman jajak pendapat dulu.

#53 SuperGay 14-Jun-2007, 22:19 MYT
R.Soares : Setahu gue kayaknya masih ada beberapa negara ASEAN yang kurang setuju dengan masuknya Timor Timur sebagai salah satu anggota. Beberapa alasan yang pernah gw baca antara lain mereka tidak mau melukai hati bangsa Indonesia (padahal sich kayaknya Indonesia nyantai aja), some also consider that Timor Leste belongs to Oceania not South East Asia. Aniway lo pernah tau gak kalo dulu beberapa negara Asia sempat menentang Timor Leste masuk AFC? Mereka menyarankan Timor Leste masuk OFC. But things are different when it comes to Australia. The AFC dan most of its member langsung menyetujui niat Australia pindah dari OFC ke AFC. I really don't mean to provoke u in aniway. I just try to share some informations I read somewhere, in case u're interested

#52 R. Soares 14-Jun-2007, 20:51 MYT
Mbak fai, bhs pengantar di sekolah2 di Timor Leste masih pake bhs Indonesia. Bhs Portugis masih dlm tahap dipelajari. Yg ngerti bhs Portugis cuma tetua kami yg dulu ngalamin jaman penjajahan Portugis. Anak2 mudanya udah nggak bisa bhs Portugis secara fasih lagi.

Kalo dipikir2 kayaknya penggunaan bhs Indonesia lebih efektif dari pada bhs Portugis mengingat Timor Leste berjiran dgn Indonesia, Malaysia, dan Brunei yg punya kesamaan bahasa. Apalagi Timor Leste mo (atau udah?) masuk ASEAN Kalo Timor Leste pake bhs Portugis, keberadaan Timor Leste makin terpencil aja deh Sedih banget!

#51 indonesian_boy 14-Jun-2007, 17:36 MYT
Siapa bilang indonesia datang ke timtim itu untuk menjajah??? Salah besar kalo ada orang yang berpikiran macam itu.. Yang gue tau sejak timtim dijadikan provinsi ke-27 di indonesia, pemerintah indonesia concern dan peduli banget dengan provinsi yang satu ini dibandingkan dengan provinsi2 yang lainnya di kala itu.. Sampai2 banyak tentara2 indonesia yang udah dikirimkan ke sana untuk menjaga stabilitas keamanan daerah tersebut secara hidup dan mati karena daerah nya itu yg rawan konflik.. Itu aja si yang pengen gue kasi comment dikit di postingan ini.. Itu menurut pemikiran gue pribadi yang udah gue liat dengan mata kepala gue selama ini, kalo ada yang gak setuju.. sile nak kasi comment about dis

#50 pakdin 14-Jun-2007, 15:03 MYT
Bung R.Soares
Kenapalah orang selalu menganggap aku gak suka sama Indonesia . Aku sangat sayang sama Indonesia itu negara Alma mater ku. Soares, bahasa Timur Leste sejarah modernnya ya bahasa Tetum. Tetapi kalau ente baca sejarah lagi L.Y Andaya atau membaca buku H.M.S Bounty yang belayar sampai ke Timor , Ternate, Tidore, Maluku mengakui bahasa Lingua Franca nya adalah bahasa Melayu. Ini catatan Barat atau orientalis yang ane baca. Tapi entahlah itu cuman bibliografi referensial saya. Saya bukan sinis hanya konsturktif . Jangan lekas emosi nanti gak lagi tempat bagiku di myindo ini.

#49 Fairy 14-Jun-2007, 14:54 MYT
R. SOARES: I see. Jadi bahasa pengantar di sekolah itu bahasa apa memang, Bahasa Indonesia atau full Bahasa Portugis? Saya masih baru dengan topik Tim-Tim, jadi maklum sajalah kalau saya banyak soalan.

Pak Din tidak suka Indonesia? Wah, tak salah ke ni? Setahu saya, Indonesia itu spt rumah keduanya Pak Din.

#48 R. Soares 14-Jun-2007, 14:01 MYT
Mbak Fai, bhs Portugis emang lagi dipelajari di sekolah-sekolah di Timor Leste sekarang ini. Itu dimulai setelah Timor Leste merdeka, dan atas permintaan pemerintah Portugis yg memberi (sedikit) bantuan ke Timor Leste.

Pak Din, mungkin ente perlu baca sejarah bahwa bhs asli di Timor Leste adalah bhs Tetum. Bhs Indonesia mulai dikenal setelah Tim-Tim bergabung dgn Indonesia. Jadi dari dulu emang nggak ada bhs Melayu Timor Leste Kalo diliat dari postingan ente, kayaknya ente nggak suka Indonesia ya? Pantesan aja sinis

#47 pakdin 14-Jun-2007, 09:58 MYT
tuker ajah bahasa Indonesia jadi bahasa Melayu Timor Leste. Barangkali nama "indonesia"itu konotasinya negatif sebagai bahasa penjajah...pandangan pribadi ikhlas PakDin.

#46 Fairy 13-Jun-2007, 21:29 MYT
SUPERGAY: Your comment and R. Soares' explained to me why the current president of Tim-Tim is not fasih in Bhs Indonesia. Gichuw.

R. SOARES: Haha! Bahasa isyarat. Mendingan bahasa isyarat beneran. But is Portuguese being taught in school ga sekarang?

#45 Fairy 13-Jun-2007, 21:27 MYT
SUPERGAY: Your comment and R. Soares' explained to me why the current president of Tim-Tim is not fasih in Bhs Indonesia. Gichuw.

R. SOARES: Haha! Bahasa isyarat. Mendingan bahasa isyarat beneran. But is Portuguese being taught in school ga sekarang?

#44 SuperGay 12-Jun-2007, 19:27 MYT
Fairy: Explain what? Which information? He's being a half portuguese? Or the australian citizenship thingy?

#43 Masindi - Website   12-Jun-2007, 14:40 MYT
Bahasa?

#42 R. Soares 11-Jun-2007, 22:13 MYT
Bhs Indonesia udah jadi bhs pergaulan sehari-hari di Timor Leste, soalnya mudah dipelajari. Apalagi banyak yg suka ama lagu-lagu Indonesia dan sinetronnya.

Bhs Porto? Susah dipelajari, dan emang sulit Mungkin nanti akan jadi bhs isyarat kali ya...

#41 Fairy 11-Jun-2007, 21:52 MYT
SUPERGAY: No wonder, that would explain a lot!

R. Soares: Kamu keliatan sekali sayang sama Indonesia, bagus, teruskan!

Tapi saya hairan, kalau Bahasa Indonesia itu mau dijadikan bahasa kerja di Tim-Tim, terus Bahasa Portugis itu dikemanakan? Jadi "bahasa main," kalau bukan bahasa kerja??

#40 R. Soares 11-Jun-2007, 21:43 MYT
Presiden Ramos Horta itu blasteran Timor dan Portugis. Udah pasti dong doi selalu ngomong bhs Porto, jadi nggak fasih bhs Indonesia Tapi emang menarik juga sih bhs Indonesia mo dijadiin 'working language' di Timor Leste. Jadi meskipun Timor Leste udah merdeka, bhs Indonesia masih tetap hidup. Dalam waktu dekat mo dibuka juga Pusat Kebudayaan Indonesia di timor Leste. Coba baca di Link

Topik ini emang udah keluar dari jalurnya Tapi jangan lupakan bhs Melayu Indonesia di Timor Leste

#39 SuperGay 11-Jun-2007, 21:36 MYT
Ramos Horta is a timorese with some portuguese background I believe. He was an Australian citizen before Timor Leste independence.

#38 Fairy 11-Jun-2007, 13:19 MYT
R. Soares: Oh begitu. Ya I would expect lah orang di Tim-Tim lebih fasih berbahasa Indonesia dari Bhs Portugis.

BTW I read this in today's Jakarta Post about Bhs Indonesia to be made bahasa kerja di Tim-Tim, menarik juga:

"Aware that the Indonesian language is spoken by most people in Timor Leste, the country's government has decided to make the Indonesian language, or Bahasa Indonesia, its working language.

Visiting Timor Leste President Jose Ramos-Horta said that Bahasa Indonesia was even used in state offices for day-to-day communication."

Taken from: T. Leste working tongue an old one

Sebenarnya President Jose Ramos-Horta ini dari mana? Bukan asli dari Tim-Tim? He does not speak fluent Bahasa Indonesia it seems.

Wah dari ngomong Bahasa Malaysia vs Indonesia, langsung masuk topik Bahasa Portugis di Timor Leste.

#37 R. Soares 11-Jun-2007, 00:12 MYT
Nggak semua orang Tim-Tim bisa bhs Porto, kok. Aku juga nggak ngerti-ngerti banget bhs Porto. Susah banget, mbak Fai

#36 Fairy - Website   10-Jun-2007, 16:31 MYT
R. Soares: Kamu fasih berbahasa Portugis? Apa memang orang di Tim-Tim semua bisa berbahasa Portugis?

#35 R. Soares 9-Jun-2007, 12:20 MYT
Indonesian Language Center mo dibuka di Timor Leste? Nggak salah tuh! Mereka kan lebih cinta bahasa Porto yg susah itu. Atau itu cuma ungkapan penyesalan orang Timor Leste aja yg udah pisah dari Indonesia, kali ya...

Gue sebagai putra Tim-Tim aseli juga nyesel waktu sodara-sodara gue pilih pisah dari Indonesia. Gue udah menduga orang Tim-Tim bakalan susah kalo pisah dari Indonesia. Buktinya keliatan jelas, kan! Dulu mereka bilang, lebih baik makan batu asalkan merdeka. Sekarang mereka makan batu beneran.

Tapi bagaimana pun 'Hidup Bahasa Indonesia!!'

#34 G Van Joed 8-Jun-2007, 15:40 MYT
Sebenarnya kedatangan Indonesia di Tim-Tim bukan untuk menjajah, tapi untuk memberi yang terbaik buat masyarakat Tim-Tim yang kala itu tengah perang saudara. Itu pun didukung oleh beberapa partai di Tim-Tim yang setuju berintegrasi dengan NKRI. Tapi kemudian NKRI harus memisahkan Tim-Tim dengan beberapa untung ruginya. Link

Keadaan di Tim-Tim setelah merdeka tidaklah menjadi lebih baik ketimbang bergabung dengan NKRI. Tim-Tim menjadi negara termiskin di dunia, padahal dulu menjadi anak emas NKRI. Mereka merasakan kesejahteraan ketika menjadi propinsi ke-27 NKRI. Kasihan sekali saudara-saudara kami yang ada disana. Link

But I have a good news for Australian people who wanna study Bahasa Indonesia, but not in my country - Indonesia. If you feel that Indonesia is not safe for you to come, you may come to Timor Leste University as another choice. Indonesian language center will be opened there soon. Yang jadi masalah, apakah keadaan disana kondusif? Link

#33 Fairy 6-Jun-2007, 21:15 MYT
G Van Joed: Wah, thanks for that piece of renungan. It's always intriguing to learn something about the past that is relatively unknown to most people.

Saya juga tidak terlalu mengikuti sejarah mengapa Indonesia menjajah Tim-Tim but setelah mendengar that the US and Australia were key factors in Indonesia's decision to take over the former Portuguese colony, history is starting to get more interesting...

#32 G Van Joed 6-Jun-2007, 19:34 MYT
Kasus Balibo 5 memang merupakan sisi gelap buat NKRI, meskipun kebenarannya perlu diselidiki. Pemerintah Australia memang agak sensi dgn issue tsb. Apalagi setelah bom Bali I yg banyak menelan korban warga Australia.

Andaikan kala itu pemerintah Indonesia tidak mengikuti saran dan dukungan pemerintah Amerika dan Australia yg paranoid dgn perkembangan komunis di bekas jajahan Portugis itu, mungkin tdk akan pernah ada sejarah Timor Timur menjadi bagian dari NKRI. Setelah Timor Timur bergabung dgn NKRI, dan setelah runtuhnya komunis, maka integrasi Tim-Tim mulai digugat oleh pihak Amerika dan Australia. Padahal sudah banyak biaya yg harus dikeluarkan oleh pemerintah Indonesia utk pembangunan di Tim-Tim yg kala itu masih terbelakang dibandingkan propinsi yg lainnya di Indonesia. Tapi, sudahlah.... Tim-Tim itu masa lalu NKRI sebelum reformasi.

Waduh, sorry ya... jadi melantur kemana-mana. Seharusnya masalah itu nggak usah dibahas Tapi itu fakta sejarah yg harus diluruskan.

#31 Fairy 6-Jun-2007, 18:18 MYT
PAKDIN: You are an honored guest, you can appear anywhere on myindo!

Ya I read about that incident. All because of the Balibo 5 case ya? That's one piece of dark history right there. Gelap gelita.

#30 pakdin 6-Jun-2007, 11:14 MYT
Hmm sukar juga. Kasus baru-baru ini Polisi Australia manahan Gubernur Sutiyoso di hotel. Menambah sentimen negatif Indonesai terhadap Austarlia.
Pak Din muncul di sini pula Fai.

#29 Fairy 28-May-2007, 01:29 MYT
G Van Joed: Wah ada Watan di atas MAS? Not bad lah paper nih.

#28 G Van Joed - Website   24-May-2007, 22:19 MYT
I've read the link about Pengaruh BI thd perkembangan BMM. Interesting!

Teringat sewaktu nonton sinetron Malaysia di TV swasta Indonesia. Ada kata-kata spt 'patah balik', 'ubahsuai', 'selepas tu', 'dua hari bulan ogos', dll. Agak bingung mengartikannya. Apa sih maksudnya? Oh... ternyata artinya 'putar balik', 'renovasi/rekabentu k', 'sesudah itu', 'tanggal 2 agustus'

Pernah juga baca surat kabar Watan sewaktu naik Malaysian Airlines dari KL. Pantesan aja nggak ada kesulitan sewaktu baca surat kabar tsb. Lha wong itu surat kabar dalam BI. Udah gitu ada berita ttg artis Indonesia. Wah tertipu....



#27 Fairy 24-May-2007, 11:02 MYT
YANTI: Kamu lucu!

Hi GOMBANG, terima kasih ya for the link. Saya baca setiap kata di dalam artikel itu, it's my area of interest! Sangat bagus and mendetil, can increase anyone's appreciation towards both Bhs Msia and Bhs Indo.

Lucu juga saya baca translation "feedback" Bhs Indo as "umpan balik." Terasanya seperti mau pergi memancing ikan.

Saya pernah lihat suratkhabar Watan yang disebut dalam artikel itu, pada mulanya saya hairan kenapa ada akhbar dalam Bahasa Indonesia di sini, tapi memandangkan kita banyak 'expats' dari Indonesia, jadi wajarlah media itu ada. Banyak liputan seputar orang Indonesia di sini, serta any news that might interest the community.

And it is true that Malaysian kids are picking up Indonesian words really fast, esp those who have Indonesian nannies and bibiks. Contohnya my ponakan aja are using words like 'bobok' when they want to sleep.

#26 gombang - Website   23-May-2007, 14:55 MYT
btw, saya menemukan artikel menarik tentang pengaruh bahasa Indonesia terhadap bahasa Melayu Malaysia di sini : Link .

Baru tahu sekarang ternyata TKI ikut menyumbang kosa kata di Malaysia

#25 yanti 11-May-2007, 17:57 MYT
Here's the "modern" nonsense pop Indonesian saying :

A B C D : Aduh Bo Cape Deh!
E F : Eiwuf Fyu
G : Gubrak!
H : Halah!

#24 yanti 11-May-2007, 17:48 MYT
Hmmmmm.... betul Fai... Aneh rasanya. Kalau ke Malaysia ya belajar Malay. Saya yang tinggal di Jawa juga pasti merasa aneh kedatangan rombongan yang mau belajar bahasa Melayu... Kalau takut ya tetap saja di Australia. Disana banyak komunitas orang Indonesia (yang sering kena razia teroris) yang bisa dijadikan partner belajar.

#23 pakdin 30-Apr-2007, 10:17 MYT
Again I agree with Gombang if you Australian or non native bahasa Indonesia speakers would like to go for advance level you may study bahasa Melayu. What is advance level?

I read in Wilta someones said [membunuh dua burung dengan "sebuah" batu] "to kill 2 birds with one stone" if you say this to Malays there is a sort of a big sin he or she will correct you right away the quantifier for batu is "ketul" so [a stone] is [seketul batu]. a pencil [sebatang pensil], an umbrella [ sekaki payung ](whereas in Bahasa Indonesia sebuah payung is accpetable).

To add more spices to this discussion is just like Malaysian American University grad go to England will say whadda he@$ this English know only fish and chip ? I wanna bagel, pancake, cream cheese he he

#22 Fairy 29-Apr-2007, 02:19 MYT
GOMBANG: Now I remember why Stania bought that Sejarah Melayu book when I took her shopping last year - untuk kamu ternyata!

I remember talking to a friend's mother who lives in Bandung but has family roots in Riau. I was gaping like a fool when listening to her talk because it sounded like the Malay I am accustomed to hearing but also with a bit of Indonesian twang. I can't describe it - it was just really unique and bizzare at the same time.

#21 Gombang - Website   27-Apr-2007, 19:11 MYT
To Riga: Jakartans or Jakartanese? Sundans or Sundanese? Chinan or Chinese? Javans or Javanese? Madurans or Madurese? There isn't any standard rule for this in English. In this respect English is an inconsistent, messed up language.

Not that Bahasa Indonesia is much better though...

Back to the question: Malaysia is a poor substitute for learning Bahasa Indonesia. Except if you are an advanced student. There are some advantages, especially if you are learning Classical Malay (root of both Malaysian Malay and Indonesian), which is beneficial for expanding vocabulary or coining neologisms. It is easier to find books like Hikayat Hang Tuah and Sejarah Melayu in Malaysia than Indonesia (at least Jakarta). Last time Balai Pustaka published Hikayat Hang Tuah was in 1951, IIRC.

I agree that modern Bahasa Indonesia has drifted away from its Johore-Riau Malay roots, and it is now harder for Indonesians and Malaysians to communicate using their respective dialects . Which, for me, is a pity. Malay language in the past was a bridge between diverse kingdoms. But for nationalist sentiments I don't see any reason why there should be two separate languages in use for two (three, with Brunei, four with Singapore) nations if they are both based on one language.

#20 evita 27-Apr-2007, 15:27 MYT
yah the history that we learn that raffles is being transferred that is so true. n from what i learn in sejarah pidana indon is that raffles being transferred not just coz british government giving back indon to dutch but behind that thing is raffles failed to make indon have united law. coz he think indon just like malay, he think that indon use hukum islam as their united law but its not.

so after he erase petuk pajak bumi n make every region can use by their own law it make lot of chaoz everywhere in every region in indon. coz he didnt think that every part of region in indon have different adat istiadat n have their own rules. n it make lots of conflict when people from other region breaking the law in some region in indon.

so he failed managing indon n not as succesful as when he managing malay. n the reason why he being chose to govern indon is coz he succed managing malay n british government sending him to do it so it can be succes like when he did in malay.

yah thats what my dosen told me in sejarah pindana indon. even i didnt know about it until i learn sejarah pindana n im so shock. coz we're so dumb at managing our own country even until now hehehe. yah makanya wanna learn indon bahasa just come to indon then pasti pusing hehehe

#19 G Van Joed - Website   27-Apr-2007, 14:32 MYT
Sebenarnya kami di Indonesia masih menggunakan kata 'kulkas' (koelkast) untuk lemari es, dan 'tustel' (fototoestel) meskipun kata 'kamera' juga sering diucapkan. Kata-kata tsb masih belum hilang dari kosa kata Indonesia.

Disadari ataupun tidak, bahasa Indonesia banyak dipengaruhi oleh bahasa Belanda, meskipun ada juga kata serapan bahasa Inggris. Ada beberapa kata serapan dari bahasa Belanda yg mulai beralih ke bahasa Inggris, sebagai contoh: personeel. Dalam percakapan sehari-hari kita mengucapkannya 'personil', tetapi dalam bahasa baku dituliskan 'personal'. Tetapi kami tetap mengucapkan 'reformasi' (reformatie) dan bukan 'reform' Begitu juga dengan 'informasi' (informatie) dan bukan 'informesyen'. Tetapi kami sering mengucapkan 'fesyen' (fashion). Bingung kan?

Saya pikir bahasa Indonesia itu sudah jauh berbeda sekali dgn bahasa melayu meskipun asal usulnya berasal dari bahasa melayu. Bahasa Indonesia sudah banyak meninggalkan bahasa aslinya karena banyak menyerap kosa kata dari bahasa asing atau lokal, kemudian disesuaikan dengan lidah orang Indonesia. Sebut saja 'fasilitas', bukan facility, faciliteit, facilitat, atau facilidad. Dan juga banyak kosa kata serapan yg berasal dari bahasa daerah di Indonesia yg tidak terdapat dalam bahasa melayu.

BTW, if you are interested in learning bahasa Indonesia you may click and take a look at the website : Link

#18 Fairy 27-Apr-2007, 01:52 MYT
PAKDIN: Tustel! How cute! Somehow I'm tempted to say Tootsie Rolls when I think tustel. Lord.

But I do have friends who still say 'kulkas' for fridge. So perhaps the term isn't so dead.

Wah wah, we're treading into historical events pulak ni. Ampun!

Thanks RIGA sis, for your valuable feedback. You mentioned about Bhs Indonesia evolution as 'haywired'. That's an interesting point of view, and I can understand why you said it. But before I jump to any conclusions, maybe you can give some real life examples of haywired Indonesian? Do you mean in writing, verbal? I'm suddenly thinking of the word 'MERIT!'

So far the general concensus is that learning Indonesian in Malaysia is probably not very ideal. I really gotta start asking the WILTA folks, especially Penny, to look at some of our feedback, it's interesting so far!

#17 Riga 26-Apr-2007, 16:46 MYT
Well, even if you left Jakartan out (Jakartan since it ends with an A - Just like Indonesian not Indonesianese, American not Americanese, Bogotan not Bogotanese), I still think Malaysian and Indonesian are different.

Both languages evolve, and the evolution started under colonialization. So, Indonesian have a stronger Dutch influence (e.g. handuk from hand-doek), and Malaysian has English influence (e.g. basikal from bicycle).

But I don't think the evolved Indonesian words will be in the Malaysian dictionary as Gembong suggested, though. I found out that Malaysian is evolving into its current form much more consistently than Indonesian is. The evolution of Indonesian is like, gone haywire.

BTW, Sir Stamford Raffles did not govern Indonesia for that long, i believe it had only been a few years when the English assigned him to Malaya and the Dutch ruled again in Indonesia for tens of years more -- with Daendels as governor. So it wasn't that Raffles failed, he got transferred. He had given Indonesia the traffic system (that's why we drive on the left, like the British and not like the Dutch)

#16 pakdin 25-Apr-2007, 14:44 MYT
Hujan di malam minggu
engkau tak datang pada ku
terkatung-katung menunggu-nunggu
aku "bercermin" pada siapa?

Its raining on saturday night
you do not show up
been waiting
why do i need the make up (bercermin using mirror)

Sebuah terjemahan sederhana Pakdin
Ini sebuah tembang/lagu Indonesia. Menggunakan bahasa Indonesia yang baik dan benar. Menggunakan kata "cermin" for "mirror". Nah tetapi dalam pertuturan harian kata "berkaca" yang lebih berfungsi. We cannot deny the word "cermin" is still a "mirror" in bahasa Indonesia.

I hope it is related to our discussion. And hopefully our WILTA from Murdoch University drop by

For the case of loanwords yes there differences

Handuk (bhs Indo wthout n ) handduk (finnish) our urban middle class Malaysian will say it "towel" he he handtuch (Dutch). [kain tuale] bahasa Melayu Johor. I dont want to elaborate more regarding our northern dialect. Mobil is from Dutch (de automobil), sapatu (portugese) kasut dalam Malays (well...we have to borrow it our ancestors dont wear shoes)

Recently I see the developement in Indonesian is the Dutch loanwords is slowly unpopular like
Tustel = Indonesian now use kamera
kool kaas = lemari es

#15 Fairy 25-Apr-2007, 12:02 MYT
VICKY, EVITA, GOMBANG, thanks ya for your input. One of the more obvious differences between Bhs Indo and Bhs Msia is definitely the choice of daily conversational vocabulary.

Examples: Kaca vs cermin, mobil vs kereta, handuk vs tuala, sepatu vs kasut.

I could go on and on. The number of differences would warrant setting up a completely new website to list them out.

But otherwise I think "secara baku" Malaysians and Indonesians can understand each other quite well. It's kinda funny to listen to Indonesians trying to speak Malaysian Malay with the signature Riau accent. Vice versa, it's amusing to listen to Malaysians trying to speak Bhs Indo.

But I have been known to fool people, at times people can't tell which one I really am.

Indonesian language also has a tendency to evolve over time, especially among the young. So in that sense it's more fluid and dynamic than Malay, in my humble opinion.

VICKY: To use the emoticons, simply click on it after the text you've type and it should appear when I approve your comments.

#14 vicky 24-Apr-2007, 11:33 MYT
hi, i'm a new here but, can i say something? well, i'm gonna say it anyway. i had this one experience, i met some students from malaysia in my campus about 2 years ago. they told me that they are aviation-engineering student from... i don't remember, it's a malaysian university.

Anyway, they came to my campus to check the MIG, you know, it's a russian jet fighter, just like in the TOP GUN, the one that Tom cruise shooting down, have you seen the movie? they asked for direction, and i told them that the MIG is in the "lab" ( it's Laboratory or laboratorium in indonesian ). they don't know what the "lab" is. so i told them that it is in the "workshop", and they got it. strange huh, i mean, what's wrong with the "lab"?

The funny part is they asked me about these "cermin" they see. "cermin" means mirror in english, and i didn't see any mirror around. i managed to realised that they're asking about these windows on the nearby building. the windows covered with "glass", which we used to call "kaca" in indo. you see, "cermin" and "kaca" is a different thing in indonesian, and it is quit confusing for me.

so i think, indonesian and malaysian language have slightly different vocab.
well that's pretty much what i want to say, pardon my english

One more thing, how can i use the emoticon provided? thanks a bunch

#13 evita 24-Apr-2007, 00:42 MYT
nggak bisa lahhhh bahasanya beda lageee u might think its the same but its not, n bahasa indonesia now mix with bahasa betawi n its the trend n so different its like bahasa spanyol n bahasa portugis so beda n the culture is beda kalau indon n msia are the same raffles pasti sukses membangun indon as he succed building msia but the fact is he failed hehe coz when u learn bahasa u had to learn the culture too kasian deh kalau katanya belajar bahasa indon but sound melayu hehe

#12 pakdin 19-Apr-2007, 09:21 MYT
komen gombang itu benar, tapi berapa banyak orang yang akan melihat kamus ? untuk tata bahasa preskriptif atau bahasa baku tidak ada beda yang beda cuma aksen/loghat/cengkok verbal kita (accent). Seandainya bahasa Indonesia seperti karya Hamka, Abdoel Moeis itu tiada masalah untuk kita fahami/pahami dan telah lama menjadi teks sastra di sekolah tinggi (high school)/tingkat 6 di Malaysia.

#11 gombang - Website   18-Apr-2007, 15:37 MYT
Perbedaan yang besar itu antara logat KL dan logat Jakarta Not all Indonesians speak Jakartanese you know.

Bahasa Melayu dan Bahasa Indonesia baku sebenarnya cukup mirip dan tidak beda-beda amat. Kata-kata dari Bahasa Melayu yang saya tidak paham hampir selalu ada di dalam Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia. Mungkin sebaliknya juga begitu.

Membaca blog/situs web dari Malaysia buat saya cara yang bagus buat menambah kosa kata :p


#10 pakdin 18-Apr-2007, 15:27 MYT
"impressionistic translation" intrepretation the word beyond its lexical meaning wow! oh ya by the way you did a paper on sosio liguistics if i'm not mistaken ?for haven't answer your question now i am going to ..I think Indonesian can be learned in Malaysia if your teacher is Fairy in KL or Pak Din in Penang

#9 Fairy 18-Apr-2007, 13:31 MYT
MBAK SYL! Apa khabar? Thanks for writing in, I've been surfing your blog and I love the new format, photo bercerita. I'm thinking of doing something similar on myindo but on a non-regular basis (like a special feature once in a while on a specific topic).

Also, not sure if Vietnam will be my holiday destination anytime soon, but I will definitely let you know, siapa tahu saya harus ke sana suatu hari nanti.

PAK DIN: Thanks for sharing these new terms: perspective grammar and functional grammar stream. I should have minored in linguistics or something, this stuff is just fascinating to me. I'm also getting more intimate with the concept of "impressionistic translation" which I'm currently applying in my side job of translating Indo TV dramas to BM subtitles (will write about the experience one of these days).

Excellent examples btw, couldn't have summed it up better myself. Who wants to add on?

#8 pakdin 18-Apr-2007, 13:21 MYT
Ok.
I make it simple Indonesia has Pusat Bahasa.

We malaysian have our Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka. Both institutions provide standard language. In Indonesia Tata bahasa Baku bahasa Indonesia" here in Malaysia we have Tatabahasa Dewan. These two are what we called prescriptive grammar. When both country comes to that point we meet our meeting point! no body laugh at each other. ex "berapakah harga sayur ini satu kilo?" both understood, but pak cik / oom jual sayur itu yang ketawa.

Now what is the problem ? there is functional grammar stream where more popular on both sides..when ever or where ever its functioning it is valid such the word "budak" is slave to Indonesian part and a child to our part. . But "budak" in standardize Indonesia is "child" refer Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia.

Hmmm hope its simple enough heh ?

#7 SyL - Website   18-Apr-2007, 12:55 MYT
fai....
apa kabar ? mbak syl udah pindah ke hanoi sejak awal bulan ini. you may add hanoi as one of your holiday destinations now
salam kangen dari kami sekeluarga juga untuk jida ya. apa kabar beliau ?

#6 Fairy 18-Apr-2007, 11:45 MYT
Hi JOEL, thanks for your input. Borneo is an interesting choice, although that would make me wonder if Bahasa Malaysia or Indonesia would be chosen. It would be a tad confusing to attempt doing both.

And why the scoff about visiting Malaysia instead I wonder? We're not that bad.

PAKDIN, maybe you can share some more insights on what makes the the languages so different, provide a fresher point of view from an actual linguistic graduate.

NOOTZ, are you Indonesian?

#5 Joel Kandiah - Website   17-Apr-2007, 15:37 MYT
I've been studying Bahasa Indonesia at my high school (Chisholm College) in Perth for my fifth and final year and it is an awesome language. When i started it i only wanted to do it because i go to Malaysia every year to see my relatives in Seremban and KL and i keep persuading my teachers "why dont you take us to malaysia instead?" they just scoffed at the idea

but some news came out from out school that they might be organising a trip to Borneo next year or year after which is actually better than visiting Peninsular Malaysia because Borneo, or might i say Kalimantan because it is relatively safe there and it also encompasses the three nations of Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia most importantly and that is what i feel schools in WA (west australia) should do.

But the idea of conversing with the indonesian embassy in KL is also very good. Our school used to have trips to yogyakarta and jakarta every two years until the bali bombings happened and unfortunately our year group was the one that had to miss out. Indonesian is taught around schools in Perth but not as much as Italian or French which more students take up. I am fortunate still to learn this language and by bringing back the overseas trips, this should promote more people in Perth schools to the language.

#4 pakdin 17-Apr-2007, 11:32 MYT
yeay this is my line! Interesting...
yaaa its a huge differences but if you talk liinguistically standardize bahasa Indonesia or you use the Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia you will see the meeting point.
PakDin
Malaysia (an Indonesia Alumni)
Majoring 1st Degree Bahasa dan Sastra Indonesia
M.A Malay Language Study

#3 nootz - Website   17-Apr-2007, 10:56 MYT
i think so! i've been to malaysia, though slow in communicating, no problem!

#2 Fairy 17-Apr-2007, 10:10 MYT
Stania, the usage of English in urban KL/Klang Valley areas is of course more prominent, that's why homestay programs in Malaysia usually place students in rural kampung area where more Malay language is spoken.

#1 stania 17-Apr-2007, 04:00 MYT
Yes, I guess it would be a different experience for Bahasa Indonesia students to learn the language in Malaysia.

Well, from my visit to KL I even use more English than Malay language (I know that's becoz my circle of friends use that more often ).

But I guess the Indonesian language is quite different with Malaysian and those who study Indonesian in Malaysia wouldn't experience the use of 'dong', 'sih' and other form of Indonesian language dynamics, ya nggak sih? :p

Btw: Fay, verification codenya bikin mau minum aja: teh botol, huhuhuhu....


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